The Creativity Code Art and Innovation in the Age of Ai

The Creativity Code: Art and Innovation In The Age of Artificial Intelligence.

Technology has always allowed us to extend our understanding of being human. Simply will artificial intelligence actually enable us to create in different ways? And could recent developments in machine learning likewise mean that it is no longer just human beings who can create art? Marcus du Sautoy and I discuss this and more.

For More of SuperCreativity Podcast By James Taylor

What does information technology mean to be creative? Is creativity uniquely man or artificial intelligence be considered creative? These are just some of the topics explored by Marcus du Sautoy in his new book The Inventiveness Code: Fine art and Innovation In The Age of Artificial Intelligence.

Marcus du Sautoy is the Charles Simonyi Professor for the Public Understanding of Science at the Oxford University, a chair he holds jointly at the Section of Continuing Education and the Mathematical Constitute. He is also a Professor of Mathematics and a Fellow of New College. He was fabricated a Fellow of the Purple Society in 2016 and Esquire Magazine chose him as one of the 100 most influential people nether 40 in Britain. In 2009 he was awarded the Imperial Society's Faraday Prize, the UK's premier award for excellence in communicating science, and in 2010 he received an OBE for services to science.

Technology has always immune the states to extend our understanding of being homo. But volition bogus intelligence actually enable us to create in dissimilar ways? And could recent developments in car learning also mean that it is no longer just homo beings who can create art? Marcus du Sautoy and I discuss this and more.

Artificial Intelligence Generated Transcript
Below is a automobile-generated transcript and therefore the transcript may incorporate errors.

James Taylor  1:28

I've been loving reading your new book, The Creativity Code: Art and Innovation In The Age of Artificial Intelligence. as it's just such a fascinating topic about whether creativity is something that's uniquely man or artificial intelligence can be trained or even teach yourself to be creative. Very early on in the book, you talk about you share Elizabeth Bowden's framework for the 3 types of creativity, I would love to just start if yous could just share those frameworks, I think information technology'd be quite useful as we go into the conversation, to exist able to can navigate themselves. – The Creativity Code: Art and Innovation In The Age of Artificial Intelligence.

Marcus du Sautoy  two:00

Yes, Margaret Bowden, cognitive scientist, will thira there are ii parts of this one is her definition of creativity, which is quite interesting, which is that something should exist new, surprising and accept value, which I think, I employ as my kind of starting definition. And I remember creativity is one of these words, actually, which is quite difficult to pin downward. Information technology's a bit similar consciousness, What is consciousness. And I think actually, the 2 are highly related. As I explore in the book, I think inventiveness is our tool for examining our consciousness. Just I idea that was quite a good sort of working definition that she came up with, which has these three components, y'all know, novelty is something that, well, we can judge objectively whether something is new or non. And I think you lot know, machines can easily make things that are new, if those 2 other elements, which I think are really fascinating, the element of surprise, which is near engaging our emotions, making u.s. look at things in new means, because we sort of getting jumped out of are kind of rather a machine-similar way of living. And and then the last one value also. That's very tricky considering that's very fluid changes over time over geographies from one person to another. And then, that'south her definition of inventiveness. But and then she has another exploration of three dissimilar sorts of creativity, which I retrieve is really interesting, considering partly, this book is as much most human inventiveness and trying to understand what it is we practice, as much as can a auto be creative, y'all know, ultimately, the books about AI, and creativity. Simply I think throughout the book, I learned a lot virtually my ain homo creativity and her sort of three different sorts of creativity. And three, I think, are actually fascinating. She has what she calls exploratory creativity, which is sort of taking the rules of the game, and only pushing them to the extremes. Yous know, so I think somebody similar a bar, for example, is working within the Baroque period and is, is really only pushing those wide rules to the accented extreme, and so you have what she calls combinational inventiveness, which is sort of taking ideas from one area, and bringing those to a completely different surface area to requite a, maybe a new way of looking at the world. So a uncomplicated instance is a kind of fusion cooking, yous know, taking the ingredients from the eastward, but putting information technology through a sort of French cuisine filter. And so the tertiary one, which is somehow the most exciting, the near challenging is transformational creativity, which is where something seems to appear out of nada, that it'south actually a breaking of the system, those moments when nosotros only see a sudden transition, a stage change. So I suppose if y'all call back about Picasso, Picasso is that moment when suddenly things look totally different and seem like that transformational inventiveness. – The Creativity Code: Fine art and Innovation In The Historic period of Artificial Intelligence.

Lovelace Test

James Taylor  four:57

And I gotta say as I was reading the book, I near kind of felt your highs and lows every bit someone who's an good in their field early in the book, you outset with a great story plainly well-nigh AlphaGo. And about the game of Go and that famous, y'all know, Lisi doll friction match and suddenly thinking, exercise mathematicians fifty-fifty have a job, y'all know? And then I can, I can nearly experience your hurting as y'all're going through the volume thinking, what is our future. And you, we've all probably heard of the Turing test. But you actually mentioned something else, which I hadn't heard of this phrase, which is the Lovelace exam as well. And so what is that? Because I call up I got a sense at different points yous were going, is information technology passing is AI surpassing it now?

Marcus du Sautoy  5:40

Yes. So I think, you know, creativity is a word that we've clung to is something that surely a machine can never practice considering information technology's sort of an expression to exist homo. And, you know, I've always used this word every bit a kind of protective shield against Why think machines can't do mathematics because mathematics isn't about just turning a handle on the axioms and journeying out of proof. There are a lot of choices involved. There's a lot of emotions most twists and turns and surprises. And so in that location is a huge corporeality of creativity. And then this give-and-take for me has been key to proverb, yous know, okay, it sounds similar something a calculator could exercise mathematics. Simply actually, mathematics is much more human than virtually people realize.

So part of the book is sort of that journeying of just showing people that mathematics is much closer to creative arts than people might expect. Then I thought I was prophylactic until I saw this moment. And that'southward sort of the spark for the book is this friction match against Lisa doll of a, an algorithm that not only beats a human, and we got used to machines doing things faster, better than humans, chess in the 90s, Deep Blue beat out Kasparov. But this game of Go is ane that has been notoriously hard to get a computer to play. Because it'south very intuitive. Information technology'due south a lot nearly patterns building upwardly on this board is black and white stones, trying to surround each other.

Simply it was more than than just the calculator managed to attain, you know, an ability to play this game very well. It did something which I believe passes these three tests that Margaret Bowden set have value, surprise, and novelty.

And so seeing this slice of lawmaking, exercise something, which was, I believe artistic was what prepare me off on the book. But a lot of people will counter and say, Hey, hold on. Just that's the humans who wrote the code, isn't it? And so it's really the humans who are the creative ones. And this Lovelace test , named later Ada Lovelace who we credit every bit the first computer coder. She saw the machine that Charles Babbage had made to practise, sort of tedious calculations. And she started to creatively imagine what the machine might be able to do more. And she speculates in some notes, she wrote near how the machine might be able to play music. But she has a word of caution, she says, but nosotros can't say that the machine is really beingness artistic, because it's the homo who told the machine what to do. So this thing the Lovelace test is kind of a chip like the Turing test, you know, can a computer create a piece of art, in whatever form music, visual fine art mathematics. But the cardinal affair here is that the human who originally wrote the programme cannot explain how the piece of code produced the art. – The Inventiveness Code: Art and Innovation In The Age of Bogus Intelligence.

Marcus du Sautoy  8:34

At present, with

Marcus du Sautoy  8:36

code in the past, which was written in a very top-downwards style, we were writing the instructions, which are just implemented past the machine. So I retrieve the creativity of Ada Lovelace is right and really belongs still with the human who'southward writing those instructions, the automobile is merely implementing the thoughts of the human being.

Just we've seen a real phase modify in the fashion code is written, it's now existence written in a very bottom-up manner, this thing people might have heard of called machine learning or deep learning. And this is where the code is allowed to alter and mutate to rewrite itself, because of its interaction with the world around it, the digital globe around it. So this means the codes are starting to split themselves from the original human who coded it a bit like giving nascency to a child, you know, beginning of all, the child is a combination of the Deoxyribonucleic acid of the parents, but its environment quickly takes information technology off on an on its own rails and inventiveness of the kid. We wouldn't say oh, that'due south the inventiveness of the human. And then that'due south what I think is so fascinating. This line, this motility that was made now famous, this artistic move in this game moved 37 games to where the lawmaking suggested a move that all the humans thought was terrible at the time. But ultimately, the lawmaking managed to apply this very early move to win the game. And then there was the surprise that what a terrible movie, and then the value from oh my gosh, it's one AlphaGo the games Though, so, but the exciting thing is that move was considered such a bad move past humans that if any human had seen that line of code, they would have deleted it. It's really a line of lawmaking that appeared out of the learning process and therefore belongs to the code and non to the humans who originally coded it. And then for me, this is a moment which kind of passes that Lovelace test, you know, something creative, okay? Not a work of fine art nonetheless, just something that passes those Margaret Bowden tests, but which you can't really credit to the humans who started the code off. – The Creativity Lawmaking: Art and Innovation In The Age of Artificial Intelligence.

James Taylor  10:34

Now I can imagine all people hearing this, and I near said that with you there was this. It'south like having someone, maybe a competitor that's improve at you than something that you tin can do a little bit, but I don't know, surely, surely I can. I tin can outpace them. But you I guess in 2 games further, after that, things get into a game for motion-picture show 70. At least he thought he played a moving picture that was so kind of creative, then innovative. And he was called God'south touch or the God or the hand of God or something, they called it in the cease. And it pushed the game of Go a homo helping as well pushed the game of Go. And in the volume, you lot show a graph, which I diagram, which I oasis't seen before. And it was a little bit of a lot of parts. In the volume, I kind of got those that kind of similar lightbulb moments and, and for me, it was the nearly optimistic role of the book. It was possibly some people have heard me that Hans Moravec, the landscape of human skills, that we're seeing AI slowly flooding this landscape and all the maybe more than simple skills like arithmetics, they all went 50 years ago, machines were doing those and more recently chess, y'all know, logic, and then nosotros're humans, nosotros're trying to become to this higher basis of creativity, collaboration, those things.

Just in the diagram, and I'd like to explicate that, as you call it, information technology'due south the local maximum graph. You said, actually, what these machines actually chose to do, where information technology's not necessary, we're not climbing just Everest, now, it'south going to assistance united states to meet that there are even bigger mountains to climb, and it'south going to open united states of america up to fifty-fifty a new possibility, we can't even contemplate it. For me, that was the most optimistic function of the volume,

Collaborator Narrative

Marcus du Sautoy  12:14

I'm then glad you choice that upwards. Because ultimately, I wanted this book to exist a positive take on AI, despite all of my ain personal fears and gild's fears. And I think, yous know, also much this sort of story is the Hollywood Story of a dystopian view of AI that'south going to wipe united states out of talks of singularity, the moment that AI becomes more intelligent than us and and so leaves us in its wake. And my feeling is that we should modify the narrative that this isn't about a competitor narrative, but a collaborator narrative . And actually, I endeavour, and I really prefer to translate AI, non as artificial intelligence, which was always Turing's idea was, by trying to create our ain intelligence in a motorcar will sympathise our intelligence that much better. So he was trying to replicate. And that's the Turing exam is, can yous brand an intelligence artificial, that you can't tell the difference between a homo merely I remember much more interesting is trying to create an augmented intelligence, something boosted to us additional intelligence and alternative intelligence? And and then I call up the, you know, we have too, too much of a one-dimensional view of this where, yous know, when is AI more intelligent than united states? That's non the right way to look at it. I call back the better manner to expect at it is to think well, they can do things ameliorate than some things better than us. And nosotros tin practice some things ameliorate than they tin can. And it's the collaboration together. That ways that we can get much farther. And I think, what's that diagram? Absolutely, I'm glad yous picked it upwards. I mean, what it is, is basically the thought that if you climb a hill and there'due south a fog around the colina, you lot might think that's the highest betoken in your landscape. But what the AI is helping united states to do in a way is to clear the fog, and to show us that there'southward an even higher mountain and that what we idea was this, the superlative of our functioning, what I call this local maximum is not a global maximum. There'south some other Hill higher. And then yeah, but yous have to take the risk of going down the valley, the adaptive Valley, and up the other side. And this for me was an paradigm that I kept on seeing throughout the book. And weirdly, you know, considering we've reached that local maximum in different performative elements. Nosotros don't effort annihilation new. And actually, weirdly, I recall humans, once they find something that works, especially creatives actually, is that they just echo the behavior because information technology's been successful in the past. One time you find one thing, it's a big risk to throw it away and try something completely unlike. Then weirdly, I think that nosotros end up quite often equally humans behaving like machines, merely repeating behavior. Then many stories in the book are examples of the AI showing the states equally humans, new ways to do things, stopping us from behaving like machines, and actually opening upwards our homo inventiveness again. So that'south why I come across this as a really wonderful catalyst for human creativity, as much every bit AI creativity. – The Creativity Code: Art and Innovation In The Age of Bogus Intelligence.

Time to come Set up

James Taylor  xv:xx

Now, I know when y'all exercise your radio programs, and you speak a common question you must become at the end when y'all mean when we used to practice events when it was in person, just maybe virtual now as well, is people volition come up to you that possibly have children, or y'all've got two twin daughters, besides, and they tin can't do so what should my kids be studying? What skill should we be developing to be kind of futurity-set up? So what? What advice for any parents listening just now with these very changing places? Should they all be studying very much the Stalk subjects? Or art? Or what? Or perchance something else? What should you be thinking?

Marcus du Sautoy  15:58

Well, I think the key hither is to learn about learning, not so much to learn a subject because everything is so fast-irresolute, you know, people talk about this as a Tertiary Industrial Revolution. And I think they're good comparisons. But you know, the industrial revolution in the 19th century, really happened over a generation. So it was the, as you say, it was the children of the families that had to displace. And the jobs that their parents did, were non the jobs that we're there for them as children, I retrieve this thing is and then fast-changing that a chore you might have today, in 10 years will not be at that place. So I call up the speed of this revolution is so fast that information technology'south not but the children that need to become this message, I call up information technology's the adults that nosotros need to be prepared to retrain and to take the flexibility to not get stuck in just 1 particular discipline. So So I remember the emphasis should be on developing in non only the things that you lot know or can practise, but the ability to be fleet of human foot and to retrain to relearn, and that's quite a hard skill, only after Well, I call back that was always what education should accept been well-nigh. It's not so much the field of study material, information technology's near ways of thinking . And certainly, you lot know, I recall mathematics is a fantastic preparation footing for giving you that sort of flexibility of mind to be able to take a new trouble and to apply tools to kind of overcome this new challenge rather than just and that'southward why I think, yous know, mathematics frequently suffers from beingness taught in a rote style. And that's non the point. Information technology's about ways of thinking not about being able to follow rules. So I would say, Aye, absolutely. I recollect the arts are actually a fantastic tool for developing this power to be fleet of foot and change so and you talk to so many scientists, they volition talk most the impact of creative arts, in their upbringing and the importance of being a musician or a painter or writing poetry. Then many scientists have that part of their lives. And for me, I think it's one of the tragedies of the U.k. education arrangement or fright. It'due south quite a lot of places that the creative arts are really being marginalized every bit kind of a fluffy subject field which isn't needed. And that's why I like the idea that the STEM stalk is fantastic then of import. Simply I like this thought of STEAM where the a is all about the arts and the importance of the arts really to making a scientist feel creative and take leaps into the unknown and have risks, that without that side, I remember they become rather impotent.

– The Creativity Lawmaking: Art and Innovation In The Age of Bogus Intelligence.

James Taylor  eighteen:45

I'm James Taylor, business, inventiveness, and innovation keynote speaker and this is the super creativity podcast. If you enjoy listening to conversations with creative thinkers, innovators, entrepreneurs, artists, authors, educators, and performers, then you've come to the right place. Each week nosotros discussed their ideas, life works, successes, failures, artistic process, and much more than.

You'll discover evidence notes for today's episode, as well as free creativity preparation at Jamestaylor.me. If y'all enjoyed listening to my conversation with Marcus du Sautoy, then please check out my interview with Rutger Bregman Dutch wunderkind of new ideas as we discussed the instance for universal basic income in the age of bogus intelligence. Here my chat with Rutger Bregman at the Jamestaylor.me. After the suspension, we returned to my interview with Marcus du Sautoy, learn about the democratization of creative collaboration. This week's episode is sponsored by SpeakersU the online customs for international speakers, SpeakersU helps you launch, grow and monetize your speaking business concern faster than you thought possible. If you desire to share your message as a highly paid speaker, so speakers will teach you how just go to speakersU.com to access their complimentary speaker business preparation.

Democratization Of Artistic Collaboration.

I call back visiting a Nobel Prize Museum in Stockholm and had the list of Polling exhibits there. And they have a French brewery because Barry e'er kept a French berry on his table. Considering even though he wanted ii Nobel prizes, and completed them in very different areas, he always wanted to remind himself that he was likewise an creative person. He was a man of science, but he was also an artist every bit a combination. Originally, you're talking most the augmenting side. And as I was reading your book, and, and you lot mentioned that you take with your twin daughters too. And I've got a friend who has twin daughters. And she said, when they started growing upwards, they kind of started speaking their ain language with each other. And that which I'm told is quite common with twins. And in the world of technology. In aerospace, for example, we're at present seeing this thing that the digital twin, you accept the engineering science, substantially the algorithm on the ground of an engine, and they can make the changes in that location. And and then when they detect it works correctly, and they get a little bit more productivity than they'll send out to the main and the existent engine. And it will do that. I'm wondering with the augmentation, do you meet maybe a time to come that each of us equally individuals in the same style that nosotros have very simple versions, similar Alexa, maybe at home, that nosotros volition have a digital twin, someone that will know as something that will know us so intimately, they can maybe have abroad some of the decisions we don't necessarily have to make? – The Creativity Code: Art and Innovation In The Historic period of Bogus Intelligence.

Digital Twin

Marcus du Sautoy  21:18

That'southward really fascinating, because, in a way, it's the theme of Ishiguro, his new book, Clara and the lord's day. I mean, I'm going to give it way too much for people who haven't read the book. Merely, you know, I think, hither again, we encounter the importance of the arts and exploring, you know, what you've raised is an incredibly challenging philosophical idea. Kickoff of all, you know, what sort of replicate? Tin can you get it yourself? What, what are the moral implications of that about sort of experimenting with different versions of your life, to see which one is best? I mean, I think that it's, I mean, actually, sort of fascinating challenges that that raises. But it also raises the fact I think that often what's important here is that just a very small change in your sort of surrounding conditions can concern what looks like the same person off in a completely different management. And information technology's very interesting with twins considering we run into, and so once more, you lot know, with my twins, I've got this whole nature-nurture experiment going on. And you lot tin come across that although they have the same genetic sort of kit to beginning with their different life experiences are taking them in very different directions. And one of the stories I talked virtually in the book is an art project that was washed at the serpentine Gallery in London, where an artist wanted to explore this kind of idea. And he created six, kind of virtual, what he telephone call Bobs, and then the interaction in each gallery, they placed in six dissimilar galleries, and the audience coming in and viewing and interacting with these digital identities, which transform code, the code would update itself in this machine learning mode, such that although the whole matter was still deterministic, in a way, y'all know, that you could follow through what the implications were, information technology didn't sort of some random number generator, information technology was deterministic, but the six Bobs that ended up at the end of that exhibition, what's then different? Yeah, they all started with the same lawmaking.

And I think this is actually, I call back, rather an optimistic discovery, because it means that, although our lives are existence totally kicked around past algorithms, and I think one of the right theory is that these algorithms are merely going to all funnel humanity into ane management, you know, recommend us even so books, to read the same films to picket such that nosotros really narrow the, what'south available to us, what I'grand seeing is really the opposite that a minor change in my likes compared to say, your likes on a recommender algorithm will transport me into completely different bits of the sort of digital library. And so I recall, this sort of cluttered nature in a technical mathematical sense, something that is very sensitive to small changes going off in very different directions, is one of the things which is making sort of algorithms actually quite interesting as kind of near individuals and very unpredictable. Because even though this is deterministic, our point is a small modify in the data that information technology learns from tin result in it becoming very different and, and that's sort of quite exciting and frightening. – The Creativity Code: Art and Innovation In The Age of Artificial Intelligence.

Creating Ameliorate Questions

James Taylor  24:35

It's virtually like reckoner DNA where yous know, your DNA is part of your makeup in terms of what you end upwards becoming, but it'southward non it'southward not everything, necessarily not sufficient. You know, me You mentioned that fine art there as well. But you know, Picasso was famously quite critical of computers. He's, I think he said, he said, he said, computers are stupid or something along those lines, considering they merely give us answers. And so exercise y'all think machines can actually help us create better questions and generate better questions that possibly volition take u.s.a. to new places, whether it's in mathematics or the arts or other fields?

Marcus du Sautoy  25:08

I call up that'due south a very interesting point. Because I call up asking a question is often the nearly creative part of the whole procedure. I mean, that's oftentimes why I piece of work with other creative artists benefits my ain mathematical piece of work because even though they can't produce an reply, they're not going to show a theorem, they will quite oft ask a question that is sort of so left field for me, and I like, Oh, that'due south really fun. I never thought of that before. And then I recollect the creativity of question raising is really interesting. And you can get an AI to sort of learning from a particular database, and and so make suggestions of things which can be very stimulating for the human. And then one of the existent challenges for AI in creativity I seen is that, although it'south very good at visual arts, i of the large breakthroughs of motorcar learning has been about vision and computers, music besides. I mean, Lovelace I think will be quite impressed to run across what music is beingness produced. It's the written word, where, weirdly, it's having a lot of difficulties. And I think that's because the written give-and-take is actually not only only words in a dictionary or words in a book, it'south so informed by culture through history for everything similar this. But I have seen an interesting project called whim the any automobile, which is sort of information technology's information technology's an algorithm, which is trying to raise interesting narrative suggestions for an author, what if you combine this and this, and it's sort of playing a chip on that combinational creativity that I talked about at the beginning, that I'1000 taking ideas and blending them mixing them?

So information technology sort of learns what sort of things we like, yous know, horses with wings, for case, that took over our prison cell phone an interesting journeying with Pegasus. And so it's the whim it takes whatsoever genre you're kind of interested in and sort of makes suggestions. Then it'due south a bit similar question raising and what if this thing and it'south clever enough that it doesn't just randomly meld things together? You know, a bit like, I used to honey those picture books as a kid where you lot could put a random caput and a middle and legs on, it would really recollect about you what this person is going to exist interested in considering as a combination? Given that I've seen what they're interested in already, but which they haven't considered already? So? So I think that's that there is the ability of some algorithms to play that part of asking questions, even if not finishing the stories. And so we'll set the person off in a new management. – The Creativity Lawmaking: Art and Innovation In The Age of Artificial Intelligence.

Touch on Of Pandemic On Creativity

James Taylor  27:43

Somebody also mentioned the volume has lots of things I never heard of before, which is always keen when y'all read a book or underline. 1 of them was the current of air curve, I think information technology was very practiced. And it got me thinking. In my own work, I talk a lot about this idea of the third place, nearly the genius loci that places themselves can have their own power to inspire creativity and obviously the machines. Isn't that a picayune bit more difficult, I guess. And I do wonder, I mean, so many the recent I speak to y'all and they say oh, but no, we'll the lockdowns we've been having during the pandemic, merely expect at all the innovations that have happened, then I tin can add my retort to that is sometimes Well, those vaccines are often the initial conversation that has come up most from perchance a series of scientists symposium, going having a drinkable together in the bar or the pub afterward, and information technology tin start nosotros're just seeing the productivity of information technology merely now. And then I wondered, what do you think is the bear upon of this pandemic, especially the lockdowns of people, not physically being able to exist in the same space to interact is having on creativity?

Marcus du Sautoy  28:fifty

Aye, I mean, I recollect at that place's an interesting sort of component that the lockdowns had, which is democratizing things in a way that has given people access to that common room or to the conversations that were being held very much of you had to be in Oxford or something to be able to attend that briefing and be together. And then I think there'south something quite exciting about giving access to people that normally wouldn't take been able to driblet in on those conversations.

But the downside is that it'southward all quite performative. We're, we're in this space where you know, it's that downtime. How exercise we simulate the reanimation? That is oft the most of import moment of, Oh, can I take work? That was really interesting what you lot said in the coming together, and you want to take information technology offline. And somehow, when nosotros press exit on our zoom call, oftentimes I wish that I could just go and tap somebody on the shoulder that was in that zoom call and say, really fascinating what y'all said there, but I didn't want to take a gamble in forepart of everybody else. So I call up we're Where, although I think in that location's a really positive side that many more people take been brought into the conversation. I mean, I'm, I'm part of many organizations, for example, a hay Festival, which, y'all know, traditionally yous would take to get to this tiny little village on the Welsh English border, in lodge to be able to hear older writers. And we're very excited by the fact that now we can put the things online, and so many more people tin come. But the downside is that the conversations that are had, fifty-fifty in the hall itself with a writer are always so heady. And we just, we haven't quite understood how to create that. Yeah, the common room. Yeah, coffee.

– The Creativity Code: Art and Innovation In The Age of Artificial Intelligence.

James Taylor  30:45

I mean, information technology's, it'south, I think it's also the function of video, I gauge, as well, we're on video merely at present. But if people probably listen to this equally audio, I think things like clubhouse have been very interesting, because people are having a lot of the ones that go in, peculiarly like AI machine learning groups, people accept been quite deep conversations. And the ability to be able to accept a conversation with perchance someone at DeepMind or Google or who'due south a real specialist, and maybe you're not necessarily a specialist, is that it does experience like democratization of that, which I hold is pretty amazing. While y'all're talking to my hay Festival, which is a great Literary Festival, 1 thing I did want to how you idea about this was in the volume, yous're obviously mentioning different tools, different technologies, it must be every bit a writer, how y'all get that residue betwixt mentioning sure technical tools are very internet at that point now, and how you create something that'southward going to live a niggling bit longer. So I hateful, I'thousand thinking just now, there wasn't plainly any mention of something GPT three in the book, because it but got published, probably knowing the publishing schedule, like probably written in 2018, published in 2019, or 2020. So how did you come to peace with that?

Marcus du Sautoy  31:56

I recall information technology was a existent effect with this book, which, for example, my showtime volume about prime numbers, you know, that's a topic we've been thinking well-nigh for 2000 years. Then it's really going to survive a couple of decades. And I recall that I retrieve I was quite lucky, actually, considering I even thought GPT 3 has come out, which is an incredible text generation. I'm already talking most text generator algorithms. And I, I haven't seen anything that really has made me remember oh, my gosh, that's then unlike from annihilation that I've written in the book, I, I think I chose a sweet spot for writing this book where many of the kinds of ideas had started to bubble. And I've given accounts of sometimes early versions, but I haven't seen anything that really has been that isn't in the book. And that for me is kind of intriguing, because why is that there was such an explosion of stuff. And I think that weirdly, I think there's been a slight plateau that's happened that, yep, we're taking dissimilar datasets and putting them in. And so I did an event with a Munich jewelry festival, looking at jewelry existence morphed by AI. But it wasn't so dissimilar from things that I'd seen in the kind of visual arts realm. So I remember I was quite lucky in simply choosing a sweet spot where a lot of the kind of things have been tried out. And waiting, I just remember we're seeing slightly more of the same sometimes amend. GPT three is certainly a very good writer, only information technology however doesn't go over what I challenge writing algorithms in the volume, which is, although it's producing the locally, very cogent paragraphs, globally, this thing just is meandering and boring. I mean, there's a book written with Kendrick, simply recently a human artist and GPT. Three, and they sort of having a dialogue together. Absolutely fascinating, sort of stream of consciousness on both artists and AI is function but past the finish of information technology, I was nevertheless although I had some stimulating thoughts throughout each paragraph in the stop, and I didn't feel similar I had an overarching narrative. So y'all had that you

James Taylor  34:06

had the Miles Davis question of and so what

Marcus du Sautoy  34:08

he said at the very terminate, then you picked up on jazz because, you know, I talk near jazz improviser and I think that suffered the aforementioned thing locally, information technology was producing very convincing improvisation. But later five minutes, the music was condign boring. – The Creativity Code: Art and Innovation In The Age of Bogus Intelligence.

Nigh Our Future

James Taylor  34:21

So at the finish of this, you went through this, you're doing all your research, seeing looking correct in the boundaries of what was happening was what was your conclusion? Are you lot in terms of the office of human mathematicians, scientists, storytellers, and creatives? Are yous optimistic nearly our time to come? Or do you think we're but playing for time now? Nosotros got some other 20 years left earlier we're going to be got rid of

Marcus du Sautoy  34:45

that. No, I'm even so optimistic. And I think it's exciting because I recollect the idea is that this volition be a fantastic collaborator. It is nearly a different way of thinking. It's making our thinking sort of multi-dimensional in a fashion that Without information technology, we're sort of thinking in just item ways. And then and, and ultimately, one of the messages is that as this thing becomes more and more complicated AI, we, as Lovelace said, you know, the Lovelace challenge, the challenge that we don't empathise how information technology's thinking and more, we're seeing algorithms. Nosotros don't know how they're making their decisions. And that's important for society because more and more decisions are being taken out of our easily. And so I remember nosotros demand tools to examine the code internally. And, and as I said, in the showtime, I think creativity was our greatest tool that the human species developed, to explore our own consciousness, our ain in a world, run across whether my pain is anything similar your pain. Some of the best examples I saw of AI art are being used to see how the code is seeing the world. – The Creativity Lawmaking: Fine art and Innovation In The Age of Artificial Intelligence.

Marcus du Sautoy  35:49

I love that

James Taylor  35:50

I love that dissection. And I felt I almost felt like I wanted that to exist another book.

Marcus du Sautoy  35:55

Oh, yes.

Marcus du Sautoy  35:57

As nosotros get forward, yous know, the question most whether, you know, there will be another phase change that happens, and probably far away downward the line, but when AI becomes conscious, and how we tin ever tell that, I mean, that's one of the unsolved problems of science, being able to tell, yous know, maybe I'm in this zoom earth, I've just been able to create a fantastic Avatar and really, the existent Marcus du Sautoy is, is sunning it in the garden, and I've just got this incredible avatar that yous're really talking to and convinced you're talking to a conscious man existence so. And then I call back when it comes to when machines really pass that threshold, it'due south the fine art that the auto will produce volition be our indicator, I think. So ultimately, I think that, this whole projection, which at the moment is nearly helping human artists, perchance to expand their repertoire. Ultimately, I recall information technology'll be virtually agreement that moment when nosotros see a real phase alter in AI condign conscious, – The Creativity Code: Art and Innovation In The Age of Bogus Intelligence.

James Taylor  36:56

well, Marcus, the creativity code, Art and innovation, the age of AI, fantastic volume, highly recommend information technology. And as well, fifty-fifty though I don't run into them as strong mathematics, I actually enjoyed the sections of which specifically about mathematics. I felt like I, learned as much near mathematics as I did virtually inventiveness in the book equally well. So thank you for being an educator on your topic too. Where'due south the best place for people to go to learn more than? Not but like the book, merely your other kind of piece of work in your enquiry? Yes, I

Marcus du Sautoy  37:24

have a website. I'thou the Simoni professor for the public understanding of scientific discipline in Oxford. Then 1 of my roles is a kind of ambassador for science. And so they go to www.Simonyi.ac.ox.uk There's a whole range of activities, things I do with the Royal Opera House with various theatre companies music and some of my mathematics besides. Then that'd be a good place to first.

James Taylor  37:56

Fantastic. Marcus, give thanks you so much. And I'm actually looking forward to whatsoever your next book is going to exist as well. Yep,

Marcus du Sautoy  38:01

that was the product of lockdown is great for writers

Marcus du Sautoy  38:04

is a good time for writers, though. So

Marcus du Sautoy  38:07

Marcus, thank

James Taylor  38:08

you so much for beingness a guest today on the SuperCreativity podcast.

Marcus du Sautoy  38:11

Absolute pleasure.

James Taylor  38:thirteen

Y'all can subscribe to the SuperCreativity podcast on Spotify, Apple tree Podcasts, or wherever you lot get your podcasts while y'all're in that location. leave us a review. I would really appreciate information technology. I'thousand James Taylor, and y'all've been listening to the super creativity podcast.

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Source: https://www.jamestaylor.me/the-creativity-code-art-and-innovation-in-the-age-of-artificial-intelligence-267/

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